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Tag: floyd landis

  • dopepunk

Landis, Lemond, Lance and Leinders: Why it has to be all or nothing

  • by Lee Rodgers
  • Posted on January 26, 2015

Floyd Landis talks sense sometimes. (Note the sometimes). He’s one of the former EPOlogists that…

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19 responses to “Landis, Lemond, Lance and Leinders: Why it has to be all or nothing”

  1. beev Avatar
    beev
    January 26, 2015

    I empathise with you – with so many of my hero’s from the pre-EPO generation, i believe it’s hard to judge them in the same way. We can argue about “playing fields” until we are blue in the face, but the trangressions of the pre-90’s riders really to pale into insignificance versus the heamocrit-rich generation from the 90’s onwards. the real tough one though for me are the riders that bridged these 2 era’s. no names no pack drill….

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    1. crankpunk Avatar
      crankpunk
      January 27, 2015

      Pretty sure the pre-EPO era guys would have taken it had it been around though…

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      1. beev Avatar
        beev
        January 27, 2015

        yes. sport is akin to an “arms race”, and always has been….

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  2. Anello Grande (@AnelloGrande) Avatar
    Anello Grande (@AnelloGrande)
    January 26, 2015

    I agree with you (and Landis) in that it should be consistent with the punishments and handling of offenses. And I do think that there should be “extra” punishment for those who have attacked others in defense of themselves, and especially doctors, coaches, directors and management who “force” riders to choose to dope.

    The sport is getting really hard to follow as a fan. You have up and coming riders (or even current top riders) on teams managed by people who directly and indirectly led, helped doping and/or doped themselves. Sometimes there’s no evidence other than “how could they not know?” They are still in the system and it makes almost everyone currently riding a suspect of cheating. I want to be excited about riders and yet, because of who they ride for or the company they keep I have suspicions in my mind about their performance. Even when I don’t “believe they would,” there’s always a little doubt.

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    1. crankpunk Avatar
      crankpunk
      January 27, 2015

      Agreed and I think that is what Cavendish misses, whereas Kittel and Terpstra do. It doesn;t work to say ‘OK from now on we’ll all be good,” becuase we’ve heard that before. Cavendish thinks the sport exists because of the riders alone but it is not that simple.

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  3. mkadam68 Avatar
    mkadam68
    January 26, 2015

    One problem area? Definitions. “Should it be a lifetime ban for all serious drug abuse?” Not that I’m against it, I just don’t know: what exactly is meant by ‘serious’?

    And, before automatic lifetime bans, we have to guarantee that the tests are foolproof and there is no possibility of a false-positive, other than just, “The lab is very skilled”, which leaves open the door of possibility.

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    1. crankpunk Avatar
      crankpunk
      January 27, 2015

      “Serious” could be EPO use and blood transfusions. You don;t accidentally fall on a needle full of EPO or accidentally get hooked up to a bag of blood. Nicole Cooke – who also supports lifetime bans – has said that she realises that there may some wrongdoings but that it is a price worth paying. You also have to realise that of all the riders who have been caught doping there is a very very small percentage that did not knowingly ingest. I think myself that yes, there could be an appeals panel, but it has to be run by experts in doping, not bureaucrats with vested interests.

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  4. Jon Avatar
    Jon
    January 26, 2015

    The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree Axel training kids in Canada, ex.Rock Racing pro coaching kids in Mexico,nothing will change.

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    1. crankpunk Avatar
      crankpunk
      January 27, 2015

      Yep, Axel has gone under the cp radar I must admit, you are right to point to him. And then of course there was this: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/axel-merckx-stands-by-armstrong

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  5. beev Avatar
    beev
    January 27, 2015

    Since you posted this article, LA has been back in the news. Reading his comments on Riis, Vino, Cookson et al, and with your “all or nothing” statement ringing in my head, a few what if’s have come to mind;

    Imagine if LA finds his ban reduced.
    Imagine if he wants to re-integrate into the sport (as opposed run in the odd sponsored event as is his argument).
    Imagine if he wants Cookson’s job – or to head a governing body seeking to replace the increasingly discredited UCI!

    The ultimate poacher turned game-keeper. Stranger things have happened….

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  6. atlaz Avatar
    atlaz
    January 27, 2015

    Axel Merckx is a puzzling one. A doping son of an ex-doping legend running a development team that people laud and even has a Gran Fondo named after him (as an aside, is any eponymous Gran Fondo NOT named after a doper?). In any case, I think LeMond has always come across as anti-doping rather than anti-dopER, Lance excluded, but if he’s calling for Lance’s lifetime ban, that has to apply to anyone guilty of a similar level of doping for their career (I’d not be sorry to see Levi and George vanish from sight). Personal animosity can’t play a part as the flip side of it is that for mates, you make excuses or brush things under the carpet and you end up back with the UCI trying to cover things up.

    For what it’s worth I’d also like to see races exclude people with lifetime bans from being part of media crews as their lazy excuses end up muddying the discussion and provide space where doping seems okay. I would also like to see the back of people like Liggett and Sherwen but that’s another story entirely.

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  7. atlaz Avatar
    atlaz
    January 27, 2015

    As an aside, did you see Talansky slamming DiLuca at the same time as posting photos with his BFF Leipheimer? Admittedly Leipheimer isn’t crazy and airing that crazy in public but it’s still a double standard.

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    1. crankpunk Avatar
      crankpunk
      January 27, 2015

      Where’s the Di Luca stuff, do you have a link? And agree on Liggett and Sherwin, should have been pulled 4 years ago at the very latest.

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      1. atlaz Avatar
        atlaz
        January 28, 2015

        http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/01/news/talansky-blasts-di-lucas-claim-that-90-percent-of-giro-peloton-dopes_314313

        And for good measure:

        https://twitter.com/andrewtalansky/status/559066514016305152

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  8. atlaz Avatar
    atlaz
    January 28, 2015

    Talansky on DiLuca -> http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/01/news/talansky-blasts-di-lucas-claim-that-90-percent-of-giro-peloton-dopes_314313

    Talansky and Leipheimer -> http://pic.twitter.com/by6ZsRgktD

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    1. crankpunk Avatar
      crankpunk
      January 29, 2015

      cheers atlas!

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  9. noel Avatar
    noel
    January 29, 2015

    I agree with you in that Cav could take much more of a proactive stance a la Kittel etc, but in the recent case I think he was just answering a dumb question in his typical style – which is broadly, that as a professional journalist, you should have the good sense to think about what you are asking in advance… ‘can you guarantee that 100% of the peleton is dope free?’ – which is a pretty dumb question… there are a thousand ways he could have phrased a question on doping to get a more sensible reply…’are you concerned that there appears to be a general mistrust that 100% of the peleton is not dope free?.. etc etc’

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  10. reg Avatar
    reg
    January 30, 2015

    Thanks for putting into words exactly why I am so conflicted about this sport these days. I’ve been following the sport since the late sixties (from inside the industry from the 80s) and I’ve never had more of a “could give a shit” about the 2015 season starting. Like you I also separate the “old days” from the EPO blood doping. Sure it was cheating, but sooner or later dropping speed wasn’t going to work anymore. I wasn’t the same level as the bloody EPO era where you could effectively start from scratch on week 3 of a GT. My biggest issue with the old boys is their inane comments regarding this generations cheaters. And yes, if you have ever been popped for doping, no team/DS jobs when you leave the sport.

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    1. atlaz Avatar
      atlaz
      January 30, 2015

      I don’t think the UCI or WADA need to ban them from the sport entirely, I reckon all the UCI has to do is say “The ethics committee will look at whether you employ former dopers as staff as a criteria for your license” and they’ll go away. One tiny rule change and all those guys go away.

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